joining us now is reaction author of "at the brink" and will obama push us over the edge and more guns, less crime and you deal with the issue again in this book although it's broader. >> obviously, there's a lot of debate about guns right now and part of the legacy that obama's going to be leaving us with, not only the damage to the economy, but unfortunately maybe the damage he does to people's ability to defend themselves. >> that's true. you said, you were at university of chicago how long. >> five years. >> sean: how many times did you run into obama. >> ran into him probably about 20 times. >> sean: and can you describe the conversation to me once, i think it was the first time you met him. >> right. >> sean: he said oh, you're the gun guy. >> i went up, introduced myself and he said, oh, you're the gun guy. and i said, yeah, i guess so. and he said, i don't believe people should be able to own guns. >> sean: people should not be able to own guns. >> right. i'd heard that he'd been working with the suit against the gun makers that the city of chicago had and the joint foundation